Robert Brown's Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Here Mayor Brown is questioned on the population and Wearmouth Bridge.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
Mr Robert Brown is called in and examined by Mr Paget as follows
Q: I believe you are the Mayor of Sunderland
A: I am
Q: Can you tell me whether the population of Sunderland is about 60,000
A: Yes, upwards of 60,000
Q: And divided by the Wear
A: Yes
Q: You are a Commissioner of the Bridge
A: Yes
Q: There are told upon that bridge I believe
A: Yes
Q: And you propose by this act to throw it open
A: Yes
Q: I believe there are funds sufficient to pay the debt
A: Yes, a surplus
Q: That is the only mode of communication...
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Brown is questionned on comunications across the Wear and local support for the Bill.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
...except by water between the two parts of the borough of Sunderland
A: The only mode of communications
Q: Are those parts of the borough of Sunderland on the north and south side practically one town
A: They are
Mr Warren: When you say the only mode there are boats and ferries
A: Yes
Mr Paget: I believe you presided at a meeting of the inhabitants of Sunderland called with regard to the present Bill
A: Yes, there was a meeting called, and I presided
Q: What that meeting called with the usual publicity of town meetings
A: Yes
Q: And very numerously attended
A: Very numerously attended
Q: Was the opinion in favour of this Bill unanimous...
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Mayor Brown provides evidence relating to a petition and the state of sewerage in Sunderland.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
...unanimous
A: Yes
Q: (By a Lord) When was it?
A: In January last
Mr. Paget: Were there a great number of rate payers there?
A: A great number, 500 or 600
Q: And I believe a petition was entrusted to the members of the Borough, and also presented to the House of Peers
A: It was
Q: In what state was the Borough of Sunderland with regards to its sewerage at present time?
A: It is exceedingly defective. In fact there is little or no sewerage worth the name
Q: In what part of Sunderland do you reside
A: In Fawcett Street
The witness points out the position of the same to the Committee
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Again Major Brown answers questions about the state of the sewers.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
Q: Those wide streets in a line with the bridge are I believe the best residences in Sunderland
A: They are
Q: The old parts which are coloured green upon the south side of the River are the close and confined parts of the Borough.
A: Yes, the streets are there extremely narrow
Q: With regard to the sewerage do the sewers if Sunderland discharge that duty which sewers in most places do of conveying the filth from the houses
A: No
Q: In what mode is the filth from the house got rid of
A: It is conveyed in carts
Q: Is that the case even with some of the good houses in Sunderland - the part where you reside...
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Questions relating to the use of water closets.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
A: Not in the part that I reside in. In the best parts of the town there are Water Closets
Q: Does the Water Closet instead of passing into the Sewer go into a cesspool
A: Yes in many of the parts
Q: Which is afterwards carried away by a cart coming round.
A: Yes
Q: That is even the case with regard to the good residence in Sunderland
A: With reference to many of the residences that is so
Q: What are you by profession yourself
A: A Solicitor
Q: With regard to the second class of houses is such a convenience as a Water Closet almost unknown in Sunderland
A: Quite so
Q: And I believe even the more simple...
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Continued questions relating to the water closets in the poorer areas, and the need for carts to remove waste.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
contrivance of a privy is very limited in its use
A: In the lower parts of the town they are entirely destitute even of that convenience
Q: In what mode do the poorer people in Sunderland who live in the small houses get rid of the filth
A: At certain intervals during the week, perhaps every two days , dung carts go round and the materials are kept until those carts come round, and then they are conveyed away by that means
Q: Is it actually the fact that in the small confined houses the whole of the accumulated filth of a day or two is actually kept in the house itself until the cart comes round
A: It is so
Q: At what time of the day or night does the cart come round
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Continued discussion regarding the carts used to remove waste.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
A: I have frequently had occasion to make enquiries upon that point, and I have found that they are exceedingly irregular in the time
Q: Supposing a poor person misses the cart, what happens
A: It is left in the house till the next time the card comes round
Q: Or I believe thrown into the street
A: There is no other mode of getting rid of it
Q: What is it that in your country you call a Mittenstead
A: Do you refer to private Mittensteads or public?
Q: Private first
A: They are usually in the yards adjoining the dwellings
Q: Open
A: Open
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Evidence relating to whether the waste is a source of profit for individual owners.
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Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
Q: And for what purpose
A: For receiving ashes from the houses
Q: And filth of every kind
A: Yes
Q (By a Lord) Are they pits
A: No, they are not pits, they are heaps walled round, but open at the top
Mr Paget: Those magazines of abomination I presume are not emptied every two days
A: No, they are retained for a considerable length of time
Q: Are they actual sources of profit
A: Not the private ones - there are public Mittensteads which are sources of profit
Q: But the private ones are sold are they not
A: Yes, they are sources of profit to the individuals undoubtedly
Q: Can you tell me whether in some...
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Continued questions relating to the sewerage system of Sunderland.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
Q: ...cases even the lower story of the house is apportioned to that filthy purpose
A: Yes
Q: Actually the house itself
A: Actually the house itself
Q: With human beings living in the room above
A: Yes
Q: Where such conveniences or such luxuries I might almost call them in Sunderland as privies exist do they empty into the Mittenstead
A: Yes
Q: Generally is what you have told me a fair representation not of individual cases but of the mass of the poor population of Sunderland
A: It is a fair representation of the state of the Town. I went round the Town when the Surveyors were down and was myself an eye witness of...
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Robert Brown continues to be examined.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
...of the state of things throughout the Town generally
Q: The sewers you have told me afford no facility at all for getting rid of their filth
A: None whatever
Q: In what state are you as to water- you have a Bill I believe?
A: We have a Bill
Q: At present the water is sold also much a
A: Yes
Q: You propose to take powers as a water company
A: Yes
Q: In your opinion will that be a great benefit to the Town?
A: Of a great benefit undoubtedly
Q: The Corporation have no powers for anything of that kind now I believe?
A: They have no power expect that which is given by the by-laws under the Municipal...
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Mayor Brown provides evidence to the slaughter of animals.
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Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
... Municipal Corporations Act
Q: I believe anther power of the Bill is with regard to the regulation of the Markets - where are the Cattle now slaughtered in Sunderland
A: They are very frequently slaughtered in the shops adjoining the High Street
Q: Are those open to the street
A: Yes, but at the time of slaughtering they put a sort of canvas thing up
Q: That is the only guard between the main thoroughfare at Sunderland and the slaughter houses
A: It is
Q: The Slaughterhouses I presume like all Slaughterhouses are the receptacles of filth and offal of every description
A: Yes - several of the Slaughterhouses are in the narrow streets - in their instances the animals are slaughtered in the public shops in the High
Robert Brown Evidence
Sunderland Mayor, Robert Brown, gives evidence towards the 1847 Sunderland Improvement Bill. Further questions pertaining to the slaughterhouse of Sunderland, and also street lighting.
To find out more, please click ‘Transcript' above.
Robert Brown Evidence
1847
Parliamentary Archives HL/PO/PB/5/13/10
Transcript
A: ...High Street
Q: Is the High Street one of the main streets of Sunderland
A: It is the principal street
Q: You propose by this Bill I believe to take power for regulating Slaughterhouses
A: We do
Q: And improving the Markets - increasing the accommodation in that respect
A: Yes
Q: Is Sunderland at all properly lighted?
A: It is very imperfectly lighted in many areas
Q: You have a Gas Company I believe?
A: We have two Gas Companies at present
Q: Notwithstanding that are oil lamps still used?
A: Yes in the lower parts of the town
Q: The pipes of the Gas Company not being laid on?
A: No